Spoiler Alert: New York Knicks Preview
by djturtleface on Sep 27, 2009 9:28 AM CDT
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PrintThe New York Knicks are in big trouble. While they did finally secure David Lee and Nate Robinson for the upcoming year, they've also completely failed to make a discernible splash this offseason. Instead of taking advantage of their nearly endless funds in a weak economy where no other buyers existed, the Knicks sat on their hands in the name of signing two max free agents in 2010.
I've got news for you Knickerbockers, it could just be a dream. Most marquee free agents end up staying put. LeBron probably isn't coming. Bosh probably isn't coming. Wade probably won't come either. Sure maybe you'll land Amar'e Stoudamire and another tier two All-Star, but it's not like $30 million in cap space is going to buy you a championship quality team when Danilo Gallinari, Jordan Hill, and Wilson Chandler are the only other semi-effective players on the roster. The Knicks needed to solidify their roster this season, but didn't get it done.
And here's some more bad news for you, this season your team is probably lottery bound, and you're not even going to have the pick. For a little more Knicks bashing, as well as some positive points, come on over the jump.
Preview
I'll make this quick. The Knicks really don't look all that different this season. They're still saddled with overpaid, non-impact players like Larry Hughes, Jared Jeffries, Eddy Curry, and Chris Duhon. Adding the former Grizzly Darko Milicic, another overpaid role player who thinks he's a star, has basically been their only move this offseason outside of the draft. Nate Robinson and David Lee are very effective in their roles, but aren't good enough to carry a team to the playoffs. If Al Harrington is your leading scorer, something is very wrong.
The Knicks picked up a few lukewarm bodies in the draft, selecting Jordan Hill and Toney Douglass in the first round. Douglass can score but is undersized and has limited potential. On the flip side Jordan Hill has enormous athletic talents, but definitely isn't ready to be much more than an energy guy at this point. These two were decent choices, but the Knicks already have enough more effective players to fill the minutes at their positions.
If this team is going to make any noise this season, it will be behind their promising forwards Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallinari. Chandler played inconsistently last season, but was occasionally fantastic and has a bright future. Danilo Gallinari is more of an unknown; the Knicks claim he is a superstar in the making, but he's always been too injured to show his talent. If the Knicks want to win this season, he absolutely has to show up and take shots from the inefficient Al Harrington.
"Mike D'Antoni snapped this photo of Danilo Gallinari before he fled the training center."
Fantasy Preview
Breakout: Wilson Chandler- As much as I wanted to put Dano in this slot, Chandler is more experienced and will probably also be available in the final rounds of your draft. If he can rebound better and become a little more assertive in making sure he gets his touches in D'Antoni's up-tempo offense, Chandler will be a steal in the late rounds. That being said getting minutes is going to be a concern, because the Knicks are deep at with similar quality of talent at the forward position.
Bust: David Lee- ESPN ranks David Lee as the 8th best power forward, and 28th best player overall. I know what Lee can do, and I watched him do just that last season. The problem is that Lee just doesn't give you enough to warrant selection in the end of the third round. He is a couple category monster, and the player rater doesn't lie, but you'll need to work hard to craft a team that compensates for his serious lack of scoring and blocks.
Useful: Al Harrington, Nate Robinson- Ranked 50th and 111th, respectively, both of these guys are solid options if you need scoring and three's. I wouldn't pull the trigger on Harrington because I'm not sure the minutes will be there this season, but Robinson is still one of the most valuable sixth-men in fantasy, and would probably be a steal this late in the draft.
Predictions
My Prediction: 30-52 (ESPN: 32-50) The Knicks are a bad team saddled with big contracts and small contributions. I don't see them as significantly improved from last season, and they might have been a little lucky to win 32 games last season. I've taken away a few wins to account for improvements in the rest of the East, as well as make up for the fact that they were better before their trades last season.
Poasting and Toasting is your home for New York Knicks coverage.
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Poor Knicks
Not having that lottery pick is going to be dangerous.
Straight Outta Vancouver - The Memphis Grizzlies DO Still Exist
This is an intresting team;
as well as Houston. Its one of the teams thats a bit harder to figure out. Both these teams have great coaches to coach them to victory, but seems to have limited/ hurt superstars. In Houston’s case, Yao has been biten by the injury bug- hard. TMac’s trademark is being injury prone. Once TMac is done, does that mean Houston is done?
Likewise for Knicks. On Paper, Knicks have a very boring roster (Ipersonally voted less than 30 wins, but not by much.) Arguably, their best player is David Lee, and he is only signed for one year. Once these 1 year contract expires, does NY really have more talent than Cleveland to steal Lebron away? The reason I think more highly of NYK however is( like Rick Aldleman), they have D’Antoni. Many players can fit under him, especially the run and gun/fun system, especially if they play little to none defense. Let’s face it, Nate, Al Harrinton, and Curry. Easily my Clippers (and this is a stronger belief whether bias or not) has a better team with Baron, Gordon, Thornton, Blake, and Clipper,and even then, I remain skeptical how far we can get. My prediction would be 35-40 wins but I have to factor in injuries, Baron’s moltivation, and how Mike Dunleavy really is going to play next season.
Sorry for randomly going to a Clipper rant, it just came out by accident. Can I add that you(djturtleface) could potentially be giving David Lee too little credit? True that he lacks on blocks and isn’t the most efficient scorer, but he’s one of the hardest workers I’ve ever seen. The kids got a very good rebounding and hussling mentality. Plus, its not like he’s ZBo on defense, David Lee is actually very capable of sticking to his man and not give up.
My predictions:
Breakingout year: Dan Gallinari (from what D’Antoni said recently on espn insider, it said that Dan is possibly one of the best shooters he’s seen.)
Dan can fit the run and gun or sling offense.
Bust: I wanted to say Eddy Curry, but really how can you top that 1.7 scoring season.. so, Nate Robinson. All this guy does is score and dunks, and when he can’t score, its dreadful to watch.
David Lee
Is a bust in fantasy, not in real life. He was a good signing for that price, and I think he should have been locked up for longer.
In fantasy he’s useful, but you’re in trouble if he’s your third best player because he doesn’t help you in enough stats. I know he ranks well on the player rater, and I don’t care.
In all the "Spoiler Alerts" the Breakout, Bust, and Useful sections are only talking about fantasy, and only in relation to their preseason rankings on ESPN.
Straight Outta Vancouver - The Memphis Grizzlies DO Still Exist
by djturtleface on Sep 27, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Gotcha my man!
That’s what I get for not reading correctly; “Fantasy Alert.”
I was more into the idea of real life and not fantasy because I don’t play fantasy anymore. The sad part is, when I did, I used to always have Elton Brand on my team.. and that was when he was ranked in like top 10… But I have to admit, Elton gave pretty good numbers, especially if he gave you 20-10-3, your pretty set on blocks if the rest of the team can block a bit more.
well this is not nice
but it’s fair enough i suppose. i think you can expect a decent enough season from duhon. at the beginning of last year he was a rock. but he definitely just ran out of gas. if toney douglas can play 10-15 minutes a game by the all star break, duhon should be able to make it the length of the year.
i just had the argument that david lee is a good shooter. his long 2’s are no good at 35% but neverthless, he shot 56% or somehting good for 7th in the league or some junk. in any case, lee might not be a great scorer, but he is efficient as hell, and that counts. also he is a solid passer, which is a huge key in the d’antoni system. and he hits his free throws. not a lot of blocks is the biggest knock on his game if you ask me.
to think the knicks will win less than 30 games this year is absurd. you definitely missed the big west coast trip that broke their spirit last year. they played phenomenal basketball but couldn’t beat the best teams in the league. yet, they dominated the crappy teams. that is something they hadn’t been able to do for years. i think this year they will be more competitve.
wilson is gonna be on point, if and only if, he goes to the basket more. good free throw shooter that could easily score 18 or so a game if he got a few more ft’s per game.
gallinari is gonna upset the whole league with many late shots, game-winners and otherwise, and he’ll win the 3pt shootout and he’ll even shoot his last few shots left-handed because he’ll be so far in front it won’t matter.
larry hughes is gonna be a problem. nat erobinson will not be a problem. eddy curry will be a wild card. jordan hill will have no effect. jared jeffries will shoot 26% from the field. or worse.
twitter.com/aighttho
Go figure, a Knicks fan
not to put into any bias opinions, but we all do. Personally, I just don’t see the Knicks being as efficient as you say it is. I can easily say that Clippers winning less than 30 games is absurd also, because to me it seems like we have a better roster on paper. Baron at point, Gordon? (easily topps Chandler), Thornton ( slightly a bit more proven than Gallinari, but for now, I’ll say it remains even since Thornton AND Gallinari has to prove themselves), Blake and Harrington, probably goes to Al for now, but don’t forget, Clippers also have Marcus Camby and Craig Smith, and at Center, Curry vs Kaman or Camby.
What Im trying to say in this (and there is no attack intended), is that as a fan of our own team, we seem to always look over and beyond when it comes to our team.
meh
all i’m saying is the knicks did not take a step back. so to think that they are going to lose more games this year than they did last year seems kind of illogical.
also the camraderie on the team was great. especially once z-bo was gone, not for nothin. the only player i have a problem on the team is larry hughes. they will best 30, not trying to say they will be able to win 36 like the fabulous clippers of los angeles, but still.
they won 32 last year and were in damn near every game. don’t worry about the flim flam roop scoops.
twitter.com/aighttho
It is tough love.
I like the Knicks and enjoy watching them pretty regularly, but this is a team who’s whole strategy is predicated on something that’s not likely to happen. If I was a real Knicks fan I would be pissed that they didn’t lock up Ramon Sessions, especially for how cheap the T-Wolves got him, or trade up to get an impact player in the draft.
This team had a lot of options, but their management was unimaginative because they’re clinging to the idea of the summer of LeBron, which is beginning to look more and more like Nets-Cavs competition.
Straight Outta Vancouver - The Memphis Grizzlies DO Still Exist
by djturtleface on Sep 27, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
yea we did it before
with jordan. i don’t anticipate lebron heading this way. but the year we didn’t get jordan we got allan houston. ridulous contract and all, he was the best shooter in the game and the team needed a shooter desperately. lebron is not the end all be all of th enba. he’s just the closest thing there is to an end all be all player. and no one else is close to him on that front.
i wish we had sessions. but i don’t mind not having him either. and the only guy that would piss me off is probably chris bosh, who is so much lesser of a player than eddy curry it hurts me to think about it.
twitter.com/aighttho
bosh is really horrendous
people don’t seem to understand me when i lay down the prophecy.
no matter. time will tell.
twitter.com/aighttho
I took some of your advice
and avoided David West and David Lee ( I decided to try out fantasy basketball.)
How does my team look dj?
pg-Chris Paul
sg- Joe Johnson
g-Hedo Turk
sf- Carmelo Anthony
pf- Emeka Okafor
f- K Love
C- Greg Oden
C- Andris Beidrins
Util- TMac
Util-Tyreke Evans
Bench: Al Thornton
Bench: Aaron Brooks
Bench: Jason Kapono
Impressive
But Kapono isn’t going to help you much. And you need a second point guard, Tyreke and Brooks won’t get many assists. Also how big of a league?
Straight Outta Vancouver - The Memphis Grizzlies DO Still Exist
by djturtleface on Sep 27, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Uh regular public assignment, 12 teams, casual
on Yahoo.
Jason was my last option. I was debating between Perkins and Kapono but thought I might’ve needed a 3 point shooter. Is there a spot I can let go of? Maybe a Hedo and filler for DWill? (A guy wants to trade DWill for a sf or sg.)
i would do that in a heartbeat
if i were getting williams. and i would also be interested in ditching turkoglu.
twitter.com/aighttho
Turk and Filler...
Don’t equal D-Will. Williams is top 10 player in most people’s eyes. Turko probably isn’t even top 50.
Straight Outta Vancouver - The Memphis Grizzlies DO Still Exist
by djturtleface on Sep 28, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions
yea he's right
and yes turkoglu does in fact blow soft tubesteaks. and yes he defintely went to the place that offered him the most money. to me that is a sign of someone who is not interested in winning really.
also bosh sucks. so he is the best player on the team. after calderon. thats not gonna get it done.
twitter.com/aighttho
ahem
that said you got some solid intangibles. i almost never want rookies. and i agree with the turleman. there’s better options than kapono for 3 pt specialit.
twitter.com/aighttho
haha
Jason Kap was my last pick so idk.
Anways, your right about the rookies; but I think I took a gamble. I went all in, big success or epic fail.
Example: KLove, Emeka, Oden, TMac, Evans.
2 are injury prone, 1 is barely joining a new team, and 3 of them are unproven.
*BUT
Tyreke Evans on the Kings seems like a sure goodshot. Udrih might not have the starting pg spot anymore, and maybe Evans might catch fire?
rookies usually don't bust out the gate.
evans is a decent bet to have value. if he doesn’t hit the rookie wall so hard he could provee to be a very wise pick in the second half when he’s acclimated.
udrih is buns. pause.
t-mac is already thinking about recovering from his future injuries. greg oden is assuming he’ll get an injury. okafor’s back hurts. and turkoglu is gonna realize how crappy chris bosh is and then he is gonna lose interest while he swims in his money pooly. so get rid of him. and seriously, having chris paul and deron williams would make you everyone’s least favorite opponent.
twitter.com/aighttho
Its very easy to say
they should have made moves this year because they are not getting LBJ.
You dont know that. I think they will, but that is a long conversation that I have had many times and nobody is ever convinced. With that, it would be very disheartening to have no shot at him, because we decided to spend our cap space this summer on… um… who? Besides sessions… there was not very many people I would have wanted anyway… and I personally can go either way on him.
Having a GM not spending just to spend is awesome.
Every NBA fan realizes that the knicks were not in a position to win for at least 2-3 years when Coach D and Donnie Walsh came in. Quick fixes are few and far between in the NBA. The Celtics were able to do it because they had a bunch of superstars fall into their lap. They current management is setting themselves up to make a similar splash. If it doesnt happen, they will have the cap room to get the right kind of FA’s in.
I also serisously doubt, that over the next 2 offseasons, all of the big name FAs are going to spurn the biggest market in the world, with one of the most player freindly coaches ever.
Instead of taking advantage of their nearly endless funds in a weak economy where no other buyers existed, the Knicks sat on their hands in the name of signing two max free agents in 2010.
I immediately discounted your article when I read this. Endless funds in a weak economy? there is a cap. We had the Mid Level to play with. Not endless. Even if it was endless, who out there was worth forfeiting the 2010 plan?
And I say it again… you dont know that LBJ and Wade are going to burn NYC. You dont. You think you do, but you really have no clue. So it would really kill all of us here in NYC if we did sign a bunch of players this year, then next offseason have one of those guys say it was too bad the Knicks took themselves out of it because they would have strongly considered playing here.
There is a difference...
Between signing free agents and making moves. I know about salary caps. I promise I know about as much about salary caps as about anyone. And if you know salary caps, you also know that you had bird rights on Nate Rob and David Lee, and a team that is already at $74 million has considerable wiggle-room because they have a mid-level exception and can make trades to remain that high above the cap.
And I have no problem with your opinion that, to you, it’s worth it to stay in the market for LeBron and Wade. I don’t agree, nor do I think it’s the right decision. More importantly if one of them does sign I have no problems eating my words. I’ll gladly admit that you were right and I couldn’t have been more wrong.
What you need to remember, though, is that by not cashing in on some of these very effective players for cheap, the Knicks might also be taking themselves out of the running for a superstar. In my opinion if LeBron or Wade, and lets not kid ourselves into thinking Amar’e or Bosh are franchise saviors on their own, are signing somewhere other than home then they better be in position to win a championship that season. The Knicks not only need LeBron or Wade to fall into their hands, they also need a point-guard, shooting guard or small forward, and center. Maybe a power forward too, depending on if Dan-o or Jordan Hill are as good as advertised.
My point is that the Knicks are treading on some very risky ground because they’re not protecting assets, which is THE imperative for organizations in the NBA.
Straight Outta Vancouver - The Memphis Grizzlies DO Still Exist
by djturtleface on Sep 27, 2009 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
yea they are treading risky ground
but it’s good to be on ground that shakes after having been on thin ice and sinking ships for the greater part of the decade. pretty soon there will be a fork in the road. and as a complete fanatical knicks idiot, i can finally have something to look forward to. i was spoiled by the 90’s. not spoiled quite enough. but every year we had a shot. and the best series was always knicks-bulls, the finals was always a lesser series it seemed.
but that’s whatever. we need to force ourselves to a crossroads if for no other reason than catharsis.
twitter.com/aighttho
By the way...
I actually do think that there is some chance that Wade heads to New York; not LeBron, but maybe Wade. He’s got to be pretty pissed about how little Miami has done.
Also if they could find a way to lose the Eddy Curry contract, then we’re also talking about a completely different situation. You’re right that there are lots of moving pieces involved, and that nobody can know the endgame.
Anything could happen; but I still think it was stupid and a slap in the face of the fans to drop the ball on Sessions for that cheap (under $4 million for a young, semi-proven PG is absolute madness).
Straight Outta Vancouver - The Memphis Grizzlies DO Still Exist
by djturtleface on Sep 27, 2009 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions
we do lose
Eddy Currys contract in 2011 no matter what, if there is not a way to trade it. And that all depends on how he plays this year. Scoring big men have some value… although it is going to be hard to find the right deal.
eh, sessions was good. but he has not been THAT good. If DW had traded Jeffries, then yeah… I would have been mad he passed on him.
The point is that there was nobody available this year worth passing up on a shot at LeBron next year.
LeBron is signing a contract for the rest of his career. While the surrounding team in year one is important, potential for quick growth is just as imperative. A team with deep pockets, no bad contracts on the books and some intriguing young players… plus one of the most desirable coaches in what is widely considered the greatest city in the world… is very attractive. Especially to a guy that can turn any team into a contender all by himself.
A NY jersey with L. James 23 on the back will immediately become one of the most recognizable sport jerseys in the world.
As I said, either way EC’s contract is gone in 2011, So a nice #2 star could come to the knicks in year 2 of James. Which would give some time to evaluate our young guys a little more and a chance to maybe grab a 1st round pick from someone. (Also NY native Carmelo Anthony is a FA that year).
I am not saying its a sure thing. I think he will end up in NYC, but I am fully ready for him to stay in Cleavland. In fact, it would be commendable for him to do so. But I think he has $$ in his eyes. I would just be very disappointing if I never even got a chance to know. Sessions was not worth it to me. Not even close.
but to say
The New York Knicks are in big trouble.
is just hating to hate. We are rebuilding, because contrary to popular belief, you can do that in NY.
this is exactly how i feel
spending money is cool and makes you look all brand new. but i’d rather wait and spend the right money. even if it means waiting past the summer of 2010. i think it’s pretty obvious we will spend a good chunk of money next year, but we can keep ourselves open (financially) until the time is right. and donnie walsh might just be the perfect guy for the job.
patience is definiteyl virtuous.
twitter.com/aighttho
Fair Enough
I was perhaps a bit harsh. If NYK fans like the direction this team is headed, that’s good enough for me.
Point taken, will avoid Knicks bashin’ in future.
Straight Outta Vancouver - The Memphis Grizzlies DO Still Exist
by djturtleface on Sep 28, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
harsh smarsh
we deserve criticism. and i just enjoy the fact that you took the time and effort to do this.
screw knick fans, they’re idiots.
twitter.com/aighttho
right on
I personally can go either way on him.
do you NOT follow posting&toasting guidelines outside of p&t? that’s a bad look my g.
i have my doubts on lebron. but i’m a pessimist. d’antoni on the other hand… is an optimist. but absolutely i am totally fine with not locking up anyone into long term contracts. we’ll see what happens. as long as chris bosh stays the hell away, we’re in good shape. i’d rather have malik rose.
twitter.com/aighttho
They need to trade Harrington
Just don’t see how he’s going to fit. He still has trade value as a guy who can score and play the 3,4, and occasionally the 5.
"I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything." -John Elway
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