Pistons/Grizzlies Trade Opportunities?
by Mike Payne on Jan 20, 2011 9:14 PM CST
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PrintHey SOV Family, my name is Mike Payne, editor over at DetroitBadBoys.com here on SBNation. I've been thinking about our respective situations and wanted to kindly ask for a Memphis fan litmus test. I've been mulling over a trade idea to discuss in our Pistons community but want to know what Memphis fans feel before proceeding. First, here's the trade concept, then my rationale:
Detroit Sends:
Tayshaun Prince, Charlie Villanueva to Memphis, salted and peppered with picks and/or cash
Memphis Sends:
ESPN Trade Machine Results: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5ty4xts
Rationale for Memphis:
First, I don't pretend to know much about your situation, but I do feel like I have a general understanding of how things are going in Memphis. Between Randolph and Marc Gasol, I believe it would be Memphis' goal to resign Gasol and let Randolph walk, using the cap relief to help finance a Gasol contract. Thing is, Randolph's expiring contract is a bit of overkill here, providing more relief than may be necessary to resign Gasol. (potentially restricted cap not withstanding)
When Gasol walks, Memphis is in trouble at the PF position with not a lot of answers. It might be possible to ship out Randolph for expiring money and a starter-quality power forward at least for the interim (that presents an upgrade over Darrell Arthur). The trade outlined above would maintain $11M in expiring salary from Randolph's contract, plus a versatile power forward whose contract is arguably suited for either a starter or bench role.
This trade shouldn't make Memphis any less of a player for Gasol. You've got his bird rights and he's restricted, so you can have him if you really want him-- with either $11M free from Prince or $18M free from Randolph. How much should you pay for him, that's the question. He's taken a step back this season, and if I were a competing GM I might not offer more than $8 or $10M a year for him. But I'm getting off the track here...
A trade like this would get Memphis a starter-quality PF to run next to Gasol when starting the 2011-12 season. I know Villanueva doesn't come without faults. He's been much improved on defense this season, and when he's given a consistent role he can put up serious numbers. He's an improvement over Arthur in TS%, defensive rebounding rates, plus he offers stretch shooting which will create space for Memphis' guard penetration. Prince is mostly added as an expiring deal, as he's a bit duplicitous when combined with Rudy Gay.
Rationale for Detroit:
Detroit has a glut of power forwards and needs to clear out just about everyone that isn't on a rookie contract. Randolph's addition would wipe the books for a real rebuilding process that needed to start long ago.
Question is, would Memphis actually bit on this? It would maintain the flexibility to match any offer for Gasol and still be friendly with the current cap. It'd also ensure that you have someone to start at PF in October. Is this enough? Is there something else on the Pistons roster that you'd be interested in? Is there anyone you need to dump? (note that Monroe is the only real untouchable, although Jerebko and Daye would be a tough sell. Anyone else is ready to move) Last, Detroit would not part with it's first round pick this season. Second rounders are in play.
What are your thoughts? Am I completely and utterly out of my mind? Is there any potential commonality here? Thanks for reading!!
FanPosts do not necessarily represent the opinions of myself, and may include questionable or unreliable material.
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True.
We should claim this site in the name of DBB and rename the team the Memphis Red Pandas.
Terrence J. is feeling a bit fishy...
by Trout Jefferson on Jan 24, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't see it
If the Grizzlies were buried in the cellar or had no playoff shot, then I could see it – maybe. However, Heisley promised the playoffs this year and they still have a chance at that. They had some dumb losses early, but have proven they can beat good teams. if they eliminate the dumb losses, they should be able to catch the last spot. if Denver trades Melo, that could be a team to catch as well. the next few games vs mostly sub .500 teams will tell a lot.
Also, Rudy may get more play o/s of Memphis, but Zach is the heart of this team. He is relentless on the boards and absolutely grinds down low. his offensive rebounds and putbacks are demoralizing to other teams and is a key to winning many games.
As for after this season, i could see the Grizz making a run at keeping him. I know it is about the $$, but Z’bo found redemption with the Grizz when most teams did not want anything to do with him. He has grown from a “troubled” player into a solid All-Star level player. 10 straight double-doubles now i think.
not a bad thought but i think most memphis fans would like to see Z’bo stick around – at least for the rest of this season.
Thanks for the rationale, GrizzFan
If you do keep Randolph and he signs elsewhere this summer, are you concerned about your limited options at PF after re-signing Gasol?
MFDLN!!
Why would the Griz want to trade away a consistent double-double. Granted he is one of the older players on the team, but what do you get in return? A bundle of inconsistency and no draft picks in return to keep our team young.
This would also be a terrible trade for the community of Memphis. They are already struggling to get people to the games and Z-Bo has been reaching out to change that. Last month he won the service award for all the NBA for the work he’s doing in MEM (paying electricity bills, making hospital visits, etc.). Right now, as the Griz are finding the rhythm, this trade is pointless and I don’t see this ever being a legitimate trade.
by unionuniv on Jan 26, 2011 11:07 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
"this trade is pointless"
Do you legitimately feel that Memphis has the resources to re-sign both Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph? If Memphis cannot retain both, then no— a trade like this is not pointless. What will you do at power forward if you re-sign Gasol and don’t have enough cap left to bring in a role player in Randolph’s absence?
MFDLN!!
Yes, they can re-sign both.
I think its reasonable to believe Randolph will resign for the same amount he’s making now. He’s made it clear he loves Memphis and wants to remain here. Memphis also probably realizes that they have to retain Gasol. If they don’t, there will be a revolt against the front office, because the fans in Memphis HATE Hasheem Thabeet. I honestly believe the fans here wish him ill. I’m not sure what it will take to resign Gasol, because he is going to be getting good offers from a decent amount of ball clubs, but he does enjoy playing with Memphis, and he loves hanging out with his buddy Zach Randolph.
by thenightstallion on Jan 26, 2011 7:18 PM CST up reply actions
Chad Ford chimed in on this very subject:
Chad Ford’s recent Trade Watch column names Randolph the 5th most likely player to be traded before the deadline:
Randolph is having another big, big season in Memphis, averaging 20 points and 13 rebounds. But he’s an unrestricted free agent this summer and it’s unlikely the Grizzlies will re-sign him.
Not only has Randolph privately expressed a desire to play on a bigger stage, but the Grizzlies probably can’t afford him. They gave Rudy Gay a near-max deal this summer, greatly overpaid Mike Conley and have prioritized re-signing restricted free agent Marc Gasol this summer. Unless owner Michael Heisley wants his payroll to hit $65 to $67 million next season, they will likely pass on re-signing Randolph.
But the Grizzlies don’t want to lose Randolph for nothing, which is why we’re hearing his name more and more the past few weeks. O.J. Mayo could be on the move as well.
MFDLN!!
Well this is disappointing to read especially after the Griz front office has set goals to make the playoffs with this crew. I could see the rationale for it if we were falling out but as long as you continue to win, you have keep your crew together and worry about FA after the end of the season.
From a financial standpoint we would pick up Charlie’s God-awful contract. It also doesn’t make much sense for DET either unless they get a sign and trade for Randolph. Without that, that piss-poor squad is going to need those draft picks.
the whole point for Detroit
is getting out of Charlie’s “god awful contract”, which it really isn’t. Detroit needs a reset across the board, and when it comes to bad contracts, Charlie isn’t even in the top 3 in Detroit. Still, a swap for Randolph would be a money move only, a sign-and-trade isn’t going to happen for the Pistons.
Without that, that piss-poor squad is going to need those draft picks.
I lol’d at this very hard. I love it when fans who have seen nothing but losing across their entire fanhood get all high-and-mighty. It’s cute :D Go Grizzlies!!
Death by a Thousand Tayshaun Isolations.
For future reference...
…whenever you have your mind made up that you’re an expert and everything you say is right and all other opinions are invalid, go ahead and throw a disclaimer at the bottom of the fanpost. But ’ll cut you a break, cause you seem like the type of guy that has wet dreams about himself.
Its not high and mighty to call a team that’s 17-30 and fails to put up a fight much of the time piss-poor. The comment was directed at the organization, nor the history of the franchise, but at the current group put on the floor. And in a world that is so “what have you done for me lately” surely you can understand that.
We get it, you want Zach Randolph and you want everyone to agree with you. Unfortunately, you’re no longer the most popular kid at Bayside High, so change your attitude, and your sheets.
by thenightstallion on Jan 29, 2011 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
We get it, you want Zach Randolph and you want everyone to agree with you.
It’s not Zach Randolph that I want, it’s objectivity. Apparently, there’s not a lot of that going around here. I don’t think it’s out-of-question to assume that Memphis cannot resign both Gasol and Randolph, and apparently neither does Chad Ford… or anyone that has read up on the CBA.
Reasonable responses to a question like this include: “you’re out of your mind, Charlie Villanueva can stuff himself, we need none of that in Memphis” or “toss in your first round pick and we’ll consider it”, etc. Instead, it’s a bit delusional to believe that the Grizzlies will resign both Gasol and Randolph, and this is apparently what everyone here disagrees with. This specific trade could be a complete loser for Memphis, but I think the crux of it is pretty reasonable— trading Randolph’s expiring for a longer term, starter-quality PF plus enough cap relief to resign Gasol. Maybe Detroit and Villanueva are not the partners Memphis needs, but it sounds rational to look for this kind of an option.
you have your mind made up that you’re an expert and everything you say is right and all other opinions are invalid
This is actually pretty accurate, but only when I’m in a room with people without a grasp on objectivity.
you seem like the type of guy that has wet dreams about himself.
Fortunately, I leave my nocturnal emissions up to the handiwork of your lady, Night Stallion. It’s amazing what 20 bucks will get you nowadays… See you at the Bayside High reunion!!
TAYSHAUN ISOLATION.
Classic. Classic 15 year old response. Is this the part where I say “My wife died of cancer?” or should I go with “Oh yeah, well I got to anally penetrate your mother?” I haven’t been 15 for a while so I’m just not entirely sure what the protocol is.
The reasonable response is the say Villanueva can stuff himself? Is this Kevin Garnett? Would you rather us call him a cancer patient?
I don’t see how saying “Memphis can resign both” is making us all homers. They have the ability to resign both. Randolph will get paid, but I don’t think he’ll make as much money as he’s making now, and with a reduced salary, and assuming he might take a discount to remain in a city that he loves and that loves him back, on an up and coming team where he is the guy, its not unreasonable to think we wouldn’t be able to keep both he and Gasol.
You were given several reasonable responses, they just weren’t what you were looking for.
by thenightstallion on Jan 30, 2011 9:02 PM CST up reply actions
I just recently posted this trade idea over at Blazers Edge, tell me what you guys think
I created this trade to think about how to put Memphis into the playoff picture (Yes it’s weird that I crreated a scenario that the Grizz make the playoffs considering I’m a Blazer fan).
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4kphg7f
Memphis gives: Zach Randolph, Marc Gasol, OJ Mayo, Hasheem Thabeet and DeMarre Carrol
Memphis recieves: Marcus Camby, Brook Lopez, Tracy McGrady, Charlie Villanueva, Rip Hamilton
The reason why Memphis does this because Randolph and Gasol are both free agents and will both command more money than the cash strapped Grizzlies FO will want to dish out, and OJ Mayo has turned out to be a problem and could benefit from a new environment. Thabeet is one of the biggest busts in recent drafts, and Demarre Carrol is thrown in for salary reasons, effectivly working as a 1 million dollar expiring contract. What they get back, is a defensive big in Camby, a scoring big in Lopez, and a utility big in Villanueva. They also get Hamilton, a legit starting SG, and T-Mac has proven that he’s still a player in this league. These additions would improve their bench tremendously, while still not giving up too much. I can definitely see a starting lineup of Conley, Hamilton, Gay, Camby, Lopez making the playoffs. especially with T-Mac and Villanueva coming off the bench, Memphis’ bench is terrible right now.
Portland gives: Marcus Camby and Greg Oden
Portland receives, Marc Gasol and Troy Murphy
Portland does this because they need to look towards the future. Oden is still a huge question mark, and although he could end up to be an incredibly beastly player, they’ve already gambled so much on him, it’s time for somebody else to take a gamble on him. Gasol is a very competent center, a legit big man. Troy Murphy will help by being another big body to put on the floor for the rest of the season, and his expiring contract will give them cap relief that they can then use to resign Gasol to a reasonable contract.
New Jersey gives: Troy Murphy, Brook Lopez
New Jersey receives: Greg Oden and OJ Mayo
New Jersey does this because Avery Johnson doesn’t like Lopez, despite him being the best player on the team, he hates his lack of rebounding skills and his lack of defensive prowress. Enter Oden, still a huge question mark, but one that I believe that billionaire Mikhail Porkhorov is willing to take on the potentially best center since Dwight Howard. They also get a talented young guard in OJ Mayo, whom they can use and asess for a few years after which they can decide how to proceed with him
Detroit gives: Rip Hamilton, Tracy McGrady, Charlie Villanueva
Detroit receives: Zach Randolph, Hasheem Thabeet, and DeMarre Carrol
Detroit does this, because they desperately want to move Rip Hamilton’s contract because they currently have over 22 million a year tied up in the sg position and what better way to do that than move 2/3 of your largest/long term contracts in exchange for two expiring deals worth 19 million and a terrible Center that they have to carry for two more years, but only pay 10 million in total to. It’s an excellent cost cutting move, and they still get to ride out borderline All-Star Zach Randolph for the rest of the season.
I like the heart....
…but this trade could never happen. You can’t expect teams in the thick of the playoff hunt to trade away half their roster. It takes time to build team chemistry, and you don’t have that kind of time at the end of the season when every game counts. And no way New Jersey is parting with Lopez. He’s going to be one of the building blocks they use for the future.
by thenightstallion on Feb 10, 2011 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
And tell that to Orlando, teams do make changes to get better midseason or to give up and think long term.
Sure you’re moving a lot of players, but it’s not unheard of to move this many players, just look at Orlando.
Initial thoughts before thorough examination...
I think this trade could be simplified to not include so many older veterans. They are better suited in FA opposed to trade chips. Draft picks are much more appealing.
In this scenario, the Blazers are the clear winner, shipping out an older Camby and an injury-prone Oden, for a still maturing Gasol and a hard-working Murphy.
I think Memphis runs even on this trade, although I am always opposed to giving up young talent (i.e. Gasol). What I can’t stand about proposals like this is the disrespect the Grizz FO gets. I understand we are a small market team and that we will probably ride the 7,8,9,10 seed for as long as we’re in existence. However, after signing Rudy Gay last year to a 5-year, $82 million and extending Mike Conley to 5 years/ $40 million, you think people might give them some credit for a commitment to keep their core talent together. To say that Marc Gasol will demand more money than the FO will pay, is premature, especially after they have made him “priority #1” after the season.
I feel bad for NJ and DET both getting the shaft, receiving Oden and Thabeet, respectively.
As a Grizzlies fan, I’d love to see a deal involving OJ and Thabeet to acquire either a quality SF bench contributor (think Ronnie Brewer), a pure bench shooter (think Dunleavy Jr.) or a physical, defensive center, or a combination of those three. Although our bench has improved dramatically since the emergence of Darrell Arthur and the energizing of Tony Allen, we lose quite a bit of height and physicality with our second crew on the floor.
Much like thenightstallion, love the heart, but I think it could be simplified.
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